MMA officiating, in regards to both judging and refereeing, has been one of the hottest topics of 2025 — and not for the right reasons. Controversies have piled up to such a degree that even longtime referee “Big” John McCarthy would like to see some widespread changes.
“We’re trying to make some of those,” McCarthy said Wednesday on Uncrowned’s “The Ariel Helwani Show” in a wide-ranging conversation about the state of MMA officiating.
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McCarthy, 63, is one of the longest-tenured referees in the sport’s history. He played such a major role that he even contributed to the creation of the rules and scoring criteria as it’s currently constructed. McCarthy retired from refereeing in 2018 after working within the sport since 1993, but recently returned to the cage to resume officiating regional fights. He also provided commentary work for Bellator and analysis for PFL over the years, while hosting a podcast with ex-fighter Josh Thomson.
McCarthy has voiced his disagreements with certain situations in the past. And despite the officials often being a rightful party to blame, he offers the reminder that the fighters, too, play a unique part.
“We all, as officials, have to come together and become more, not only proficient, but more together in the way we decide when we’re going to call warnings and when we’re going to take points,” he said.
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“Fighters are smart, and I try to say it all the time, fighters take advantage of things that they can take advantage of. That’s their job. I don’t blame them. Our job is to make sure they don’t get that advantage. Sometimes we’re doing a good job of that, sometimes we’re not. So we need to always be looking for how do we adjudicate this so it’s fairest and what’s best for the sport, the fighters and the fans, and what’s best for the promotion.”
Several fights in recent months have been significantly impacted by fouls that went unpunished. Most notably, Tom Aspinall’s UFC heavyweight title defense against Ciryl Gane at UFC 321 was left without a resolution after Gane’s double eye-poke rendered Aspinall unable to continue, resulting in a no-contest.
Questions often arise in those situations regarding the offending fighter’s intentions with the foul — the determination of whether a foul is “intentional” or “unintentional,” for better or worse, changes the outcome under MMA’s unified rules. But in the case of non-fight-ending fouls, a referee’s point deduction can make or break the result of a fight.
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McCarthy highlighted another recent bout as a good example of why warnings are in place.
“The taking of the point has always been something that we try to stay away from, because we don’t want to influence who wins the fight,” he said. “We want the fighters to come down to that. But it’s come to the point where, as a community, we need to start saying, ‘OK, the fighters have gotten to the point where they have a behavior in certain things. They do things based upon the behavior. They’ve been allowed to do these things, and there’s been no negative repercussions. … Do we want to start tightening up those negative repercussions, and do we want to start making it where we’re not going to start giving you warnings? We’re going to start giving you fouls?’
“There’s ones like with Kevin Holland [at UFC Vancouver] — I’m being honest when I say, Holland and [Mike] Mallott would have gotten the point taken [by me], at least. Based upon, I have to even this out. Kevin Holland has been fouled not only once — he got hit with a low blow, then immediately gets another one, and that one’s really bad. Mike Mallott has gained an advantage in the fight through a foul. I can’t have that happen. So I’ve got to try to level the playing field here by taking a point to say, ‘OK, yeah, you gained an advantage. You’re feeling better than Kevin Holland, but I’m going to take the point to at least say that means you better win this round or you’re going to lose it 10-8, and I’ve got to put you in that position. I don’t want to, but I’m going to, based upon how bad Kevin Holland is [feeling].'”
Veteran referee Herb Dean recently came forward to note that officials are beginning to take notice of the criticism regarding the sport’s lack of foul enforcement. But McCarthy is firmly in the boat that immediate fouls would lead to many more problems than solutions.
UFC heavyweight champion Tom Aspinall was unable to continue fighting after being poked in the eyes by Ciryl Gane in their heavyweight title fight at UFC 321 in October.
(GIUSEPPE CACACE via Getty Images)
“When you saying you’re going to take a point for any eye-poke or any touch of the fence, you’re not going to like the results,” McCarthy said. “It’s going to be detrimental to the sport.”
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Another of the major points of contention regarding the foul conversation in MMA centers around the lack of transparency from officials. While McCarthy has long been a public figure, not only conducting interviews but also hosting podcasts over the years, that’s a much rarer sight from many of his peers, especially when a situation arises when it’d be helpful to address potential mistakes or bad calls.
Ultimately, there should be more open conversations and explanations, believes McCarthy. That, unfortunately, has been frowned upon within most regulatory bodies over the years.
“The reporters deserve that so they can report the right information,” McCarthy said. “I believe the fans deserve it so they can understand. Sometimes things will happen, and we’re told as officials, ‘I don’t want you talking about that.’ OK, but we didn’t do anything wrong. People need to know what really occurred. It’s like, ‘No, we’re not going to talk about it. Just let it go. We understand, we’re good.’
“I always say, you’re going to be the flavor of the month somewhere along the way, and people are going to be mad at you because they think you did something wrong, even when you didn’t. … We should have certain people that are allowed to talk based upon, they can communicate and not say something that’s going to harm the promotion, not harm the commission, and give people an insight into, ‘Look, this is what I was looking at and this is why.'”
